Now after Pil's review of the Reloop TM4 I tend to agree that it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to market the TM4 as a Serato Controller. Having tested the controller myself, it works even better with Traktor than with Serato. Now the same goes actually for the N4, which has also a big Serato logo on the box and of course the VCI 400. It is kind of sad however if Serato is simply behind with a software release, to not at least comment on the topic or tell buyers what they are getting into. Adding to that confusion is the VCI 380, that costs nearly as much as the VCI 400, but has 2 channels and is for Itch. Which leads to a conclusion that possibly Serato is not going to bring something for those controllers above and it is simply a marketing gag, that is not working very well. Now we know that the Software is called DJ Intro, but most of the mentioned controllers are to hefty priced (especially the VCI 400) to be only working with entry level software. The current marketing state is however: Buy that controller that comes with Intro, you use Intro because you get into DJing nicely and then you will migrate to Traktor or VDJ Pro, as there is no path for you to upgrade within the Serato line. If you have already spend the money on Traktor Pro and Serato does release an upgrade path Software to late, I doubt many will switch back. So it would totally make sense if Serato would tell us what they have in store (or not), as so some might simply buy the controller and make due with Intro until the new software is release without crossgrading. But Serato is not telling us anything... The whole situation is very frusttrating and I can see marketing departments running against walls, as what is going on right now is neither good for the controller guys like reloop or numark and is even worse for Serato, as they definately will lose market when Traktor 2.5 hits and they have not even announced anything beside the VCI-380. Now I know we wont get an answer here, but I would love to hear my fellow DJs opinion on the matter and what you would expect from a software if Serato releases it: Should it be like Itch, or should it be Itch or should it be something else?
I suspect they'll have one "Serato" with all the flavours built in, but it's only speculation as nobody's told me anything official.
Reloop keeps marketing the Terminal Mix as a Serato Controller. This time with a performance of DJ Angelo, excellent performance and well made video: Showing him with Serato DJ Intro, emphasis of the video of course is the excellent jog wheels and nice crossfader they built in the unti, as Angelo is a scratch DJ and turntablist.
wow scratching over krafty sounding 110bpm tracks sounds dated... I have a lotta love for dj angelo and reloop he taught me to scratch on youtube and reloop was my first 2 controllers but meh, scratching doesn't appeal to me anymore I guess.. Since this is a speculation thread I think if itch weren't going to offer an upgrade path they will now due to a market for it, but it might just have been serato trying to cut in on the le market and providing software cheaper to manufactures than the competition, it works three ways if you think about it, serato make extra money from sales of intro to manufactures, manufactures save money on bundling software, consumers save as they aren't paying as much due to not having to pay for full strength software... We all know that all hardware is designed with traktor intigration in mind, and we all know Native Instruments seldom support anything that will compete with thier own hardware, considering that native have a 2 channel "S2", 4 channel "S4", mini controller "X1", pad controller "F1" anyone who wants to use anything else on the market is SOL... enter VDJ Pro and serato if they make the upgrade happen.
I totally agree. This is why I fight myself not to give into NI and have given back the S4 I borrowed, even though the price he offered it to me was a bargain. I am now using VDJ Pro 7, so I get the 8 upgrade free anyways. But I kinda liked DJ Intro and Itch. VDJ just offers more flexibility and I guess with 8 it should solve the few shortcomings it has at the moment, if they make VSTs on the mac happen, I will be hooked on VDJ, at the moment the poor Mac support of VDJ is what keeps me watching for that Serato Upgrade path....
vdj8 is going to own traktor and serato in functionality, I have read the beta forums from the last q & a session and a lot of thought has gone into what will make vdj8 the best software possible. I think many of the shortcomings have never been addressed previously was there wasn't such a large market for dj software and up until recently was a very niche product made for bedrooms and mobile dj's as there was little respect for it in clubs... and I still think Version 8 is atleast a few months away though so best to not get too excited yet.
I think VDJ is not as bad as many people make it. However about 80-90% of my DJ buddies are using MacBooks of some sort to DJ and what is putting everyone off, is the fact that VDJ does not support the Mac as well as Windows.
the problem is that the things that are bad are horrible the main one and the most essential is the eq, but that's not only getting fixed it's going to be user adjustable frequency cutoffs :-D although not all software eq's are created equal so hopefully atomix make it really nice otherwise i'll just keep using the vst i'm using.. I haven't heard a whisper about mac support of vst's so time will tell I guess, but Atomix's history is creating a framework that's modifiable by the community of users, but not support half of it in native mappings or default skins, and in that respect aside from vst support mac is on par with pc, It's just that the development community mainly submits pc only plugins as that's what they know. If a mac developer wanted to they could create anything that can be done on pc. what were we talking about again?
Hehe right Well I hope Serato does come out with a nice version of Serato DJ Pro which kind of like VDJ Pro includes Timecode, Controllers, Video etc. Then we would have real competition going on and 2 competitors that give Traktor a run for its money, since it only works good with NI controllers. Sadly for Atomix I am a long time Apple User (as I also use Logic for producing) but have no clue about development other than some simple Apple Scripts....
My only issue with serato/itch.... I own a NS6...$999 msrp. Built into this price from numark is the licensing fee for Serato Itch. Most Itch controllers have a heafty price tag (which is justified because it includes a lifetime of free software upgrades). Now, I am going to be traveling and want to pick up a smaller footprint VCI-380 (another $999) ...and guess what I am going to have to again pay the inflated price due to the licensing fee of Itch being rolled into the controller by Vestax.... I too agree that Serato will combine Itch/ Scratch live at one point...leaving DJ intro as their LE with a way to upgrade.
Vinny from that perspective VDJ, although it has a hefty initial price, is the cheapest DJ software in the long run. Buy it once, use it on any controller and have free updates for life.
Now there are rumors spreading on the net, that Itch is in final release state aka the last release to include feature upgrades and it may be replaced by something new... speculation guys predict that SSL and Itch will be melted together into a pro software and Itch/SSL users will get a cheap or free upgrade path.
Link to Source please? I could see SSL/Itch combining, but there wouldnt be a upgrade charge. They would then use DJ Intro as their entry level software with an upgrade path to their new PRO software. There would still have to be SERATO certified controllers. The controllers themselves would be cheaper because there would no longer be the built in Licensing fee for the Itch software, but it would still require RANE Hardware to work.
That is the trouble... I was really tired after a gig and needed to wind down, so i was surfing on the iPad drinking a hot chocolate (yeah I am a real rockstar DJ....) and forgot to bookmark it. It might have been in Reloops support forum, but I don't know which thread or where.... I try to look for it again when I have time. I can recall that Dave from Reloop said something like Itch being in its final release too. And I am totally with you Vinny. I would love to see such an upgrade path as I totally love my Terminal Mix 4, but I have to use Traktor at the moment as DJ Intro is 2 Decks only and VDJs EQ sucks and I cannot replace it on my Mac as it does not support VSTs.... so Traktor is the only choice atm and since I gave back my S4 I had to dig out 30 bucks for a resell license on DJTT.
Here's the train of thought I'm not totally following. To the people really hoping for an SSL/Itch combination, or an upgrade path from DJI to Itch: why are either of these things really significant, and have you ever extensively used the 3 Serato products? Because I really can't imagine the Hellspawn that would be SSL and Itch combining, there's just no reason to have both in one, and the code would become so bloated and layered it wouldn't be anywhere close to stable for quite a while. They're two distinct products for two distinct purposes. And concerning DJ Intro, I really don't understand the stigma around it, and why its perceived as so needed to get Itch on the Intro controllers. Have any of you actually used Intro? It's pretty much Itch, sans a few effects... And.... 4 decks? It's pretty much everything you could want out of a DJ software, Itch is really just icing at that point, the beating heart of Serato, it's main feature, is still there.
First of all we are saying that we want an upgrade path from DJI not that we want Itch and SSL combined, but that a combination would make sense (as in VDJ and Traktor already did it). These days there are things like quality control, unit tests etc. so this can be done in a stable fashion and without killing your codebase. (If they do it right.) Now while I am on boat with you that from all the LE/light versions I have seen, that intro is one of the best (if not the best) to get the job done and it might actually be sufficient for many DJs, for many others it is not. We (I guess the more controllerist side) like things like slicers, 4 decks, more samplers with sync, possibly a bridge to video and ableton etc. etc. etc. I am totally on your boat, that for blending songs at a house party this is unnecessary, there are those of us who would like to get more. Like there are people that when they have tasted the icing, they always want their cake with icing... If Serato does not follow through on this, then people like me will simply move to another software and from a business point this would make no sense. This is why we actually EXPECT Serato to do something fast, or with the release of VDJ 8 it will be over for them. A reason supporting our flow of thoughts are the recent controller releases: The reloop Terminal Mix is branded a "Serato" controller, it comes with DJI but it has 4 decks and more buttons than Intro can use and one button even with a slicer (that actually to this point I have only seen in Itch). Also the newest Itch controller (VCI-380) has no Itch logo on it, like al previous Itch controllers, it has a simple Serato stamp on it. Now I personally because of the limitations of Intro have to use Traktor with my Terminal Mix, which is actually a Serato controller. I could not care less if the new software from Serato will have timecode or if that will be left for SSL, but I want a pro grade software from Serato, as I hugely prefer the layout and jog-action of Serato compared to Traktor, which at the moment is only a compromise for me.
It said on the reloop site press release for the terminal 4 that the slicer will be available with a future update, I read it just after it was announced. this is what it currently says http://www.reloop.com/reloop-terminal-mix-4
It doesn't seem to me like it would be hard for them to update their business model quite quickly. Leave the software alone, have Intro as the free "included" LE version with controllers, Itch as a paid full version (and unlocked to any midi controller), and SSL as the hardware dependent version. There. Done. Now why is it taking them so long to see how easy that was? lol
they would need to change a fairly large chunk of the program to make it open to mapping and they would lose the plug and play that serato seem to pride themselves on or they would need to keep it locked but add the extra controllers and roll out a new registration system to existing users. If they do the latter it would not be a good move to release a half done software excluding some of the intro controllers, as consumers are a fickle bunch who lose faith in a product very quickly when there are issues.
